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Should pitches be removed after so many hit batters?
Here's a selection of the voter comments received. Because most were submitted anonymously, we've decided to remove all name references.
I feel that at this age level [*], the kids need all the learning experience they can get. If a kid pitching is obviously wild and has no pitching ability, he does not need to be on the mound. However, even the Major Leaguers have off days. I've seen them hit 2 in an inning. Discretion must be used. It is obvious when a pitcher is throwing intentionally at a batter. If he does this, then by all means remove him and a suspension would be in order. If it is not intentional, then issue a warning and go from there. Weather conditions should be factored in as well. If it is cold or wet, the ball can be harder to grip and control; it doesn't necessarily mean that the pitcher was throwing at the batter. [* Not clear if referring to voter's age group which is 11/12 (next bracket up) or the age of the team in Dan's situation.]
You have to take each instance and look at the pitchers ability.In younger years this type of thing can discourage a young pitcher.At 9 and 10 this is a great time to teach hitters since usually the ball is not being thrown very hard. In the older ages 13 to 15 if a pitcher is afraid of hitting batters this will greatly inhibit his progress.
Two problems with this.
- Safety - Hit the third batter and the pitcher should be pulled.
- What is the coach thinking?
At 9/10 we should be stewards of the game for not only our team but the safety of the other team as well. As coaches we DO NOT want the pitcher to hit the batter, but it happens. The kids should all be taught the proper way to avoid the pitch and perhaps the face guards should be used for the first two years of pitching.
Too many hits are "intentional" and "ordered" by the coach(es). Make a clean sweep with a hard and fast rule.
Tough rule to implement. You not only have to consider the batters safety, but also the confidence of the pitcher. I'm ok with this rule at this age, but not past 12 years old. Batters should be coached and taught to "turn and duck" correctly. Pitchers at this age are going to hit batters (unintentionally), but if the pitcher is wild and just doesn't have it that day, then they should be pulled.
We have come across the "two hit batters in the same inning forces a pitching change" in 10U and 12u. This is a good safety precaution for the batters as well as the pitchers. i plan to make this a part of our league rules as well as our own tournament rules this year.
How about teaching the kids proper pitching mechanics so that their pitches are under control and wild pitches are kept at a minimum. If parents can't handle wild kids throwing below 50 mph fastballs at their kids, then might I suggest those parents realize that sports are not pain-free.
I added this rule to my league after MY pitcher hit a second batter during an 8u all star game and broke the batters jaw. The pitcher threw real hard for his age and the opposing team had a hard time finding kids that wanted to get up and bat. I pulled the pitcher for the sake of the game and the game went on. Our pitcher and his family went to the hospital to visit the injured player after the game, but the damage was done. Now it is mandatory that a pitcher be removed from the mound if he hits 2 batters. If the batter would have turned into the pitch instead of showing his face to the ball, his jaw would not have been broken. That is why I believe it should be mandatory that batters learn the turn and duck early. This year, we had an opposing team hit our batters 7 times in one game (12u division). I honestly believe that if a rule was in place that said if 4 batters are hit in a game, not only does the batter get a free base, but the on deck batter gets a base also. This would mean the hit batter would receive a double. This would keep coaches from calling the inside pitches so often when they have pitchers that have control problems and it would also ease up on the retaliation. Just my opinion.
This is a classic example of our society trying to fix every problem by institution of a rule or regulation. It may make us feel better. It is made with the best of intentions but it is wrought with problems and unintended consequences. I plead with Dan to resist the urge to react and create ANOTHER rule.
In preseason practices, I taught turn and duck with tennis balls for three years with 8-9-10 YO's. Never had a player get hit in the face or chest.
Our rule is 2 hit batters and the pitcher is removed for 9/10s and 11/12s. There is no team limit. Players can pitch in the next game. We are trying to develop pitchers, so it is essential to not suspend the pitcher unless the umpire rules it intentional (which has not happened in the 6 years I've been with the league). We teach turn and drop the bat behind your body (avoid a foul off the bat) beginning at age 7/8 coach pitch, to get them started on the correct way to "get hit" if you can't get out of the way.
I play in a MABL/MSBL 18 and over league. Our rule is 4 hit batters and you're out of the game. Not ejected, can play in the field and continue to bat.
I've been with my local Youth baseball league for 7 years, starting as a coach for 9/10 yr. olds, and eventually working my way to 13/14 yr. olds and league President. We have 7 teams in our 9/10 yr. old brackets, and were in a small team, so our coaches are pretty easy going & work together in most situations. We have what I call a "loose" rule in regards to the HPB (Pitcher Removal). Basically, a kid can be removed from Pitcher anytime after hitting 3 batters....However, it only really gets enforced if we're dealing with a hard-throwing pitcher, whose wild-pitching is creating a dangerous situation for the batters. In the event, there are three HBP batters within the same inning, our Umpires are instructed to quickly conference with the coach, as to whether the player should continue. We do this with the 11/12 age group as well, but not with our oldest group 13/14. However, if there's a hard-throwing pitcher on the mound, and he's facing some inexperienced batters, and ends up hitting, say, two batters in the head, we probably wouldn't for a third kid to be hit...Our umpires would Que the coach to make an immediate change. You've got to have cooperation from coaches, yet charge the umpires with a responsibility in this situation as well. Safety is the number one objective in our decision making.
If the pitcher is doing this intentionally, there is no question that he should be ejected immediately and a suspension should be considered. If it is unintentional, the pitcher and his team pay the price with a man on base every time, but it should be the coach's decision to relieve him. Pitchers must be able to pitch to both sides of the plate and that means that they will sometimes hit a batter. Batters should be taught to turn and duck.
Any coach who lets his pitcher continue after hitting three batters in an inning doesn't know what he's doing. As for a game, would any coach tolerate seven or eight "walks" from any pitcher (four BB, four HBP; or some other combination)??? HBP, after all, is noting more than a one-pitch walk to first base.
I have coached for many years, mostly from beginner to age 12, and some high school. There has always been talk of a HBP rule, but rarely implemented and more rarely upheld. My personal rule, for any age group, is 2 in an inning, 3 in a game. Any more is dangerous for the batters, and bad for the pitchers confidence. As for penalties, I've been in games where all of my pitchers had no control like it was contagious. I would look at the teams history before imposing any sanctions. Turn and duck should be mandatory. It' a skill to be learned like any other. We teach catchers how to protect the bare hand, pitchers to tuck their glove into their chest, fielders to keep the fingers spread, etc, why not batters to turn and duck!
This is more a Common Sense/Fair Play rule. The coaches in our association are very good with this and it has never been an issue. I think associations should discuss fair play rules with their coaches and stress a healthy atmosphere to play ball. As much as the batter does not want to get hit, I'm sure the pitcher does not want to get pulled. If a kid is throwing hard and their control is not there then yes he should be pulled. Is it after 1, 2, or 3 batters. That should be the the coaches or umpires call based on the risk. If the child is pitching for the first time and not really throwing hard and hits a couple of batters. I would be inclined to talk to the other coach and let him finish pitching the inning. Downsides of having a HBP rule. 1. Coaches will have their batters crown the plate in hopes of shrinking the strike zone. 2. Pitchers tend to stay away from throwing an inside pitch. I have seen several of our pitchers that have trouble throwing inside pitches because of this. When my son was younger he was removed a few times after hitting 2 batters. His pitching coaches thought the rule absurd and celebrated the hit batters (Not in a malicious way but to reduce the negative impact on this mental stat about it). At 14 years old he has established good control and he has no problem throwing the inside pitch for a strike if a batter is crowding the plate. Other pitchers struggle throwing this pitch. I call it the "Nice Kid" syndrome. They tend to leave the ball out over the plate because of the fear of hitting a batter. Closing thoughts. Rule NO. Gentlemens agreement YES.
You can't just lay down a pat set of rules for this... A pitcher tossing the ball in and hitting the batter is not the same as a pitcher firing the ball in and hitting a batter. It needs to go into the Umpire's descretion, if the kid on the mound has been wild and walking guys the whole time, or if just four or five of his pitches got away from him. I've seen young pitchers pitching a gem get pulled from the mound because for some reason they couldn't pitch to left handers and they hit 3 batters who happened to all be lefty's. In the meanwhile they'd strike out 2-3 batters per inning. Like the balk call by an umpire, (subjective w/ guidelines) This too should fall in that category. I believe the blue should be capable of making the call, and allow the replacement pitcher as much time as necessary to warm up properly. We can't punish the replacement pitcher. Removal from the mound should be the only penalty so long as everyone believes it wasn't done on purpose... Since the Blue already has the authority to eject a player from a game if he believes he is purposely throwing at a player, it is not that far of a stretch to allow him to remove a player from the mound if in his or her opinion they are a danger to others.
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