During these month of 05 we ran two surveys - a simpler one on MVP selections and this more complex Nose 2 Nose on whether 9-man ball or 'everybody bats' is best for youth baseball.

While there are arguments in favor of either option, the results clearly favored one choice. As always, the questions we ask only serve to get the debate started. Judging by the volume of comments we received in addition to votes, this is a very important topic in a lot of leagues. We hope these results (and the opinions below) might help you decide what is best for your age brackets. Not to cloud the issue but some leagues have 'everybody bats' in house or Spring leagues and run under 9-man rules (i.e. with subs and re-entry) during Summer championship tournaments. (We're leaving the re-entry rule itself for another debate.)

Which do most favor? Which is the better choice? Why is 'everybody bats' good? What are the 9-man ball factors? <-- choose charts

Some interesting points to us in the charts above...

• There is some shift in preferences by age (the closest margin is 57-43 for age 13-14).
• While almost all believe 'everybody bats' is better for player development, we could question this - don't players get better by having to compete for position?
• The age split on coaching strategy may have more to do with how well the coaches know strategy than with how the kids are on the field.
•  Keep in mind that a factor that scores less than 30 or 40% means most voters do not agree with that statement (allowing for some undecides).
• By the way, we know 9-man vs 9-player was a politically incorrect way to say this, please don't write.

We have everyone bat in our rec league. In our competitive league we do 9-man. In a rec league situation , player development must be the objective. In rec league everyone should bat, and the emphasis not be placed on coaching strategies. The best way to keep kids playing ball (which is why we're all here anyway) is to keep it fun. There's a place for 9-man ball ,it's called competitive/tournament play. - Joel Perry

Differences among 12-year olds are pretty hard to see when you look at the big picture - of course each has unique skills, but I'd argue that the differences among hitters is less than that among fielders; all are at least solid contact hitters. Problem is that as the season rolls on, there is an increasing discrepancy in the number of at-bats between the kids that start most often, and the three-four bench kids. And there is of course greater pressure to make those rare at bats count. In my opinion this is counterproductive to both team and player; particularly at crucial pinch hitting time when a kid comes up with 5 at bats vs. 15-20 for the rest of the team. Yes, in all-stars we expect greater emphasis on winning. But I don't believe batting the roster would change game outcome; not for an all star team. Certainly it lessens the psychological blow of sitting out games. Moreover, a kid's defensive ability (his crunch-time game situation skills) become stale; further solidifying his role as bench player. I understand that from a coaching standpoint batting 9 is desirable for several reasons; but what are we doing if we are not trying to improve every kid, every game? I say bat the roster. - Mike Bonoff

I am in favor of both. Everybody bats should be used in developmental baseball (B league teams) and 9 man should be for the more skilled baseball player (A league). Obviously tryouts will need to be scheduled; you need to seperate the good/natural players from the beginners/need work players and form two separate leagues. When the B league player improves he can move up to the A league. Also you don't hamper development of your skilled player because your too focused on getting the less skilled players up to an average skill level.
7-8 yr olds: Everybody plays. This is usually the age when boys are introduced to the sport and want to be on a team because they know someone else. You want to make it fun so they stay with the sport and hopefully move onto minor league play. 9-10: Have A and B leagues, tryouts are needed. 11-12: Have A and B leagues, tryouts are needed. - Scott Fulton 

While 9-man baseball is the best representation of the whole of the team, an 'everybody bats' approach to youth baseball rewards the hard work and efforts of every player despite their varying talents, slumps, etc. The 9-man effort has to be geared toward maintaining your pitching crew's availability foremost and any surprises (which are part of the game) often translates to very little PT for some players in a limited substitution environment. A single appearance at the plate or the basepath isnt very appetizing to a 13 year old. My team plays 'everybody bats' until post-season, so it's easier to pick the 9 at the season's end. However, players and parents who have been along all season have every right to be concerned about the message it sends to their son when he is picked to sit more (meaning most) innings for varying reasons. In the end, nobody signs on to sit out during the pinnacle of the season. If the various leagues deem it necessary, all youth league managers have to make a call based on what they see as fair and right (there is a way to get near-equal PT that does not put your best arrangement on the field at all times versus playing 'best 9'). After 10 years of making that call, I can see both sides of that argument and can fault no one for either choice. - Russ Dingess

For teams up to age 15, I think the continuous batting order is the best thing since sliced bread. There will be plenty of time for the kids to sit when they get to the High School level. We utilize the continuous order and freely substitue players each inning. Looking back over the last 3 years the playing time for our team is pretty equal. This does not mean you have to sacrifice winning, over the past two years we are 78-26 and have won or placed in 10 tournaments. Kids are happy, parents are happy, which makes a coaches job all that easier. - Mike Madey

I do agree that there is more 'strategy' involved in 9-man ball, but the game is for the players not the coaches. - Jeff Atchley

Some kids in our league use everybody bats to just show up at games and not practice. They know they will play without coming to practice. This creates trouble with the kids who do come to practice and are trying to get better. - Mike Rose

if a youth coach is doing his job, the players understand that baseball is a TEAM game, and that only 9 can play at a time. I think this approach teaches players to learn all skills necessary to become a complete player, i.e. hitting, bunting, fielding, throwing, running the bases, etc. All of this being said, I don't think it's appropriate for a young player to sit and watch for the entire game. For this reason, many leagues obviously have a minimum number of at-bats/innings that each player must enjoy during a game. In older age leagues, however, players must learn that the best 9 should play most of the time - "life isn't always fair" - when everyone on the team learns this, and they're willing to work their rear off to "make it more fair", then the entire team benefits. At older ages (13+ I think), if a player isn't happy with the amount of time they're on the field, then they need to work to further strengthen their strengths and improve upon their weaknesses. - Damon Brown

 

Your questions are out of context, since they do not relate to whether we are playing at a high level of competition or medium or recreational. Our society, more and more, tends to only think of the lower level player getting better and not the upper level player advancing too. Why is it always about equal participation and not about hard work and earning a spot, even if it is as a role player while in practice we are trying to earn a starting position. - Leighton

I am writing from the perspective of a 12U coach. We are youth coaches for the purpose of teaching baseball and winning some games in the process. I personally believe 9-man ball is for the benefit of the coach to win more games. In my opinion we cannot determine when a kid will become a great baseball player until he or she reaches the age of 14. Most athletes under the age of 14 have an opportunity to advance and become a high school player. Conversely, any athlete under the age of 14 who is the current 'star' has as opportunity to get burned out and not advance in skill and not play high school baseball or softball. Not allowing everybody to bat denies an opportunity for a player to advance in skills and be a part of the game. Unfortunately I see most coaches trying to win games with 8, 9, 10 and 11 year old kids and not teaching skills and the game of baseball. They have the same 2 or 3 players on the bench for most of the game. The player who only sits the bench during the game is not being coached properly and allowed to advance and will eventually quit baseball all together. If the player sits the bench most of the year it is the coach's fault. If we as coaches do not continually and consistently teach mechanics, skills, drills etc. then our young players will never have the opportunity to 'click' and become a better player. Allowing all players to bat helps to advance a players skill. I applaud WebBall and the community of contributers for helping me to advance my skills and knowledge of baseball and therfore advancing the skills of my players. - Casey Shull [Editor's note: Aw, shucks, Casey, we would have included your note even without the praise. By I will say that Casey is right about one thing - it is the coaches and contributors that come to Webball that deserve the credit. I'm just happy to provide the meeting place - Richard Todd.] 

I think coaches lose perspective on Lttle League too early when it's 9-man. The bench players quickly become 2nd class players on the team. The coach's goal should be to field a competitive team while having all the players contribute to a variety of positions. No need to specialize positions and determine bench players too early in the process. Most kids relegated to bench play will give up the sport after a year or 2 - this doesn't have to be the case. What's the goal? Winning first? or player and team development / life skills first? Make this clear to your parents and players before the season starts and open a dialogue around philosophy of how rosters are determined. - Mike Klein

9-player is actually the best for everyone - if the league can support teams for different levels - so each kid can play on an appropriate level 9-player bat team. It gives the player a better chance to develop among their peers. The top 9 players on average get 25% more at bats per season - which is a lot. This will help them develop. It also challanges the 10, 11, 12th players on the team to improve their game. 'Everyone bats' is hard on the less talented players - because the kids all know who are in the bottom tier - not much fun to be there. A nice compromise, might be leagues that do 'everyone bats' during the regular season - keeping everything politically correct - and then go to real 9-player for the playoffs. - Jeff

I favor 9 man ball because from a personal stand point it teaches the player the value of being on a team and appreciating the contributions of his teamates and not limiting the experience to "I had a great season because I got to play". I will clarify this by saying I believe all members of the team need to be valued as important and good coaching can allow all players to paricipate and if done correctly the experience should change from I got to play to I contributed to the team. - Rick Garhart Our LL has gone from 9-man to everybody-bats during the regular season. It has allowed the coaches to become nurturers and teachers in a still-competitive environment. We have also eliminated our practice of awarding the All-Star manager position to the manager of the team winning the regular season. Now a vote by all of the team managers decides. - Brent Yoder [Editor's note: perhaps Brent has suggested a topic for a future debate on all-star selection?]